What do you recommend for someone who is looking to invest in a fully halal way? It seems like companies like Wahed are not reliable and in my own research into some of the big mutual fund companies like Amana, their investments are not always even shariah compliant. Thanks
I want to investigate that as well, I just don't know the answer, though there are some who have done interesting work in the field, there is a lot of reason to be disappointed with the enterprise. "Islamic Finance" is an area subject to capture by the financial services industry and too much of it seems indistinguishable from affinity marketing without any real concern for halal.
1. Shaykh Yasir said "a Shari’ah Board “is looking into each and every business transaction, looking into each and every company and assessing whether these companies fit the criteria for halal investing.”
This is correct. Not the Wahed Shari'ah Board, but the Shari'ah Board of the fund. So nothing wrong with this statement by Shaykh Yasir. Not sure what your issue is?
2. Shaykh Yasir said if you trust the people on the Shari’ah Board and the Ethics Board, you should trust the company. Again...nothing wrong with this statement. What's your point?
3. Bottom line was that he was an ethics advisor, not on the Shari'ah Board or the Marketing team or any team. Do you really expect him to audit every last thing the company is doing on an ongoing basis? Seriously?
4. I find it very very strange that you only criticise Muslims and Muslim organisations. Why don't you also talk about HSBC, IShares and other non-Muslim organisations who provide services in financial products to the Muslim community?
1. It’s possible you missed the SEC censure and fine document. You really should read it. It discusses the fund. I linked to it in the article. The statement by SYQ is false. See the video too and check to see if he is splitting hairs like you are. A compliance board does not as a general matter scrutinize each and every business transaction of every single company. I don’t know that I would need them to. For this to be accurate they need to read every single contract entered into by every single company they contemplate investing in. He was overselling even if some sort of written process existed. At best SYQ did not know much of anything.
If you have proof he was accurate you should share it with us. Also maybe share it with the SEC, it may help Wahed out. Maybe you can help them get their money back.
2. Since SYQ was claiming things that were not true, you would have been on the wrong track trusting him.
3. Its nice you think that he was an ethics advisor is the “bottom line.” I guess we have fundamentally different values if you think ethics advisors can make false statements. I feel like if you can’t verify the claim is true, don’t make it, maybe I’m old fashioned that way. You are a fool if you think he was not marketing for Wahed.
4. Yes. That I did not write about Shuyukh who made false statements in support of marketing Blackrock’s ishares products or HSBC makes me a shill for Blackrock, HSBC and other non-Muslim finance bros. Also, I am unaware of something like that happening with Blackrock or HSBC but that’s a small detail. Let me know though if it did, and we can tsk tsk them together.
You should be shilling HSBC and the rest as well. Just google it and you'll find a long list of things they've been fined for which should make us question their integrity.
I think this boils down to this - what is the SYQ false claim exactly? I honestly don't get it. About checking every single business transaction? Any other false claims?
And do you think he should have been aware of the issue that the SEC found or not, given his role? If so, what should he have been doing to ensure he was aware of it?
1) SYQ hasn't made any false statements, apart from potentially making a minor mistake which had no bearing on anything since it related to sharia-compliance and Wahed are sharia-compliant until proven otherwise.
2) SYQ had no realistic and practical way of knowing about the issues the SEC raised. Just because he supported an organisation, doesn't mean he is at fault for their faults.
Therefore the allegations presented in the article seem completely unfounded and false and should be retracted.
It also seems odd that the author refuses to criticise current promoters such as Khabib, Paul Pogba etc. Also he refuses to criticise non-Muslim banks.
In summary, the article is nonsense, and unfortunately lacks credibility and due diligence in matters the author doesn't seem to understand.
Umar, I don’t think “shilling” means what you think it means. My article is about shuyukh. I realize you are outraged about me not writing about things you may or may not care about. Hopefully you can write about things you care about, while I will write about what I care about.
SYQ can speak for himself. He does not need to you to tell him what he could have learned before he spoke out of ignorance, spreading ignorance in the Muslim community.
The SEC enforces law and regulations. Including things like you should do the things you are charging people for doing. He should know that the SEC does things like that.
Umar, you claim his false claims were minor and had no bearing on anything because it had to do with sharia-compliance. Is that a joke?
1. How did YQ affirm that every single institution has a Shari’ah Board looking into things. I mean, the best thing we can take from this is that he made a totally ignoramous claim here, which is what the article warns against. That’s the extend of his “ijtihad”
2. Most Muslims have no idea about Islamic Finance, the right thing to do is to teach, but I’m afraid that he would push people to disguised riba methods, as he deceives with hadith, fiqh and aqeedah already. The phrase is not necessarily wrong, but the to e is: don’t you trust me?!
3. Where did you take that ethics is separate from the Sharia? Only secularists believe that garbage. This is in the same line of his saying that we should oppose the LGTV group morally but support them politically via his deluded “ijtihad”, which is slowly walking out of now. That is NOT Islam in any way, shape or form, and if you took classes for real scholars, you would never heard these kind of cringy lines. This is just his dissociation after being caught.
4. It is know by necessity that’s haram to pay zakát to the kuffar, no serious Muslim would do that unless he’s ignorant, or deceived to believed it. Muslim associations collecting zakat need more scrutiny in that regard than other orgs. I agree that Muslims should be warned about other orgs as well as a general rule, but a Muslim org just cannot claim to work with zakat or financial services and be ignorant of the fiqh of it at the same time. Not every ignorant is excused by his ignorance, but rather, people are on different levels. This is the same reason why YQ’s excuse of being an ethics advisor is not excused for vouching or supporting an org deceiving the Muslims. Muslim orgs are not accountability free, enjoining good and forbidding evil applies to Muslims as well.
I’m sorry if I came out harsh, but honestly, YQ is a full-fledge reformist, who circles himself with reformists, uses reformists arguments and taking points, and teaches things that nobody in the Muslim Ummah said before, including none of his Medina teachers. This knowledge is the religion, so beware where you take your religion from.
1. It's how Islamic Finance works. Islamic Finance products have Shariah advisors who sign of the product. Just a well known fact. Feel free to look through the various products Wahed has and bring forward a few that don't have that, i.e. back up your point.
2. OK so we agree the phrase is fine. Thank you.
3. You miss my point here. This was my question "Do you really expect him to audit every last thing the company is doing on an ongoing basis? Seriously?"
4. Firstly I'm not talking about zakat. Which is because it's not something I know that much about so I didn't read that part of the article. But again, why does the author not criticise Ishares, HSBC etc.? Just Muslims? A reader should ask themselves that question.
5. It's fair enough you have a negative view on YQ in general. You're entitled to your opinion. However that shouldn't affect how you judge his actions in this instance. One needs to be fair and take each situation in isolation, as the Prophet (saw) did. That's our religion, whichever shaykh you want to follow.
So I am not sure but heard the Ehsan is working on an agenda by writing such articles so non-Muslim charities claim to be the rightful person to distribute the Zakat (I guess they have no clue other than that they are missing trillions of dollars from Zakat donations) Is that true though!
What do you recommend for someone who is looking to invest in a fully halal way? It seems like companies like Wahed are not reliable and in my own research into some of the big mutual fund companies like Amana, their investments are not always even shariah compliant. Thanks
I want to investigate that as well, I just don't know the answer, though there are some who have done interesting work in the field, there is a lot of reason to be disappointed with the enterprise. "Islamic Finance" is an area subject to capture by the financial services industry and too much of it seems indistinguishable from affinity marketing without any real concern for halal.
Just challenging your key points here.
1. Shaykh Yasir said "a Shari’ah Board “is looking into each and every business transaction, looking into each and every company and assessing whether these companies fit the criteria for halal investing.”
This is correct. Not the Wahed Shari'ah Board, but the Shari'ah Board of the fund. So nothing wrong with this statement by Shaykh Yasir. Not sure what your issue is?
2. Shaykh Yasir said if you trust the people on the Shari’ah Board and the Ethics Board, you should trust the company. Again...nothing wrong with this statement. What's your point?
3. Bottom line was that he was an ethics advisor, not on the Shari'ah Board or the Marketing team or any team. Do you really expect him to audit every last thing the company is doing on an ongoing basis? Seriously?
4. I find it very very strange that you only criticise Muslims and Muslim organisations. Why don't you also talk about HSBC, IShares and other non-Muslim organisations who provide services in financial products to the Muslim community?
Thanks for chiming in.
1. It’s possible you missed the SEC censure and fine document. You really should read it. It discusses the fund. I linked to it in the article. The statement by SYQ is false. See the video too and check to see if he is splitting hairs like you are. A compliance board does not as a general matter scrutinize each and every business transaction of every single company. I don’t know that I would need them to. For this to be accurate they need to read every single contract entered into by every single company they contemplate investing in. He was overselling even if some sort of written process existed. At best SYQ did not know much of anything.
If you have proof he was accurate you should share it with us. Also maybe share it with the SEC, it may help Wahed out. Maybe you can help them get their money back.
2. Since SYQ was claiming things that were not true, you would have been on the wrong track trusting him.
3. Its nice you think that he was an ethics advisor is the “bottom line.” I guess we have fundamentally different values if you think ethics advisors can make false statements. I feel like if you can’t verify the claim is true, don’t make it, maybe I’m old fashioned that way. You are a fool if you think he was not marketing for Wahed.
4. Yes. That I did not write about Shuyukh who made false statements in support of marketing Blackrock’s ishares products or HSBC makes me a shill for Blackrock, HSBC and other non-Muslim finance bros. Also, I am unaware of something like that happening with Blackrock or HSBC but that’s a small detail. Let me know though if it did, and we can tsk tsk them together.
You should be shilling HSBC and the rest as well. Just google it and you'll find a long list of things they've been fined for which should make us question their integrity.
I think this boils down to this - what is the SYQ false claim exactly? I honestly don't get it. About checking every single business transaction? Any other false claims?
And do you think he should have been aware of the issue that the SEC found or not, given his role? If so, what should he have been doing to ensure he was aware of it?
You should read the whole article. I actually address both other sec enforcement , and what shuyukh should do.
So let's summarise where we're at:
1) SYQ hasn't made any false statements, apart from potentially making a minor mistake which had no bearing on anything since it related to sharia-compliance and Wahed are sharia-compliant until proven otherwise.
2) SYQ had no realistic and practical way of knowing about the issues the SEC raised. Just because he supported an organisation, doesn't mean he is at fault for their faults.
Therefore the allegations presented in the article seem completely unfounded and false and should be retracted.
It also seems odd that the author refuses to criticise current promoters such as Khabib, Paul Pogba etc. Also he refuses to criticise non-Muslim banks.
In summary, the article is nonsense, and unfortunately lacks credibility and due diligence in matters the author doesn't seem to understand.
Yeah I read it. But you're article doesn't answer my two questions.
Also why aren't you shilling Khabib, Pogba etc?
Umar, I don’t think “shilling” means what you think it means. My article is about shuyukh. I realize you are outraged about me not writing about things you may or may not care about. Hopefully you can write about things you care about, while I will write about what I care about.
SYQ can speak for himself. He does not need to you to tell him what he could have learned before he spoke out of ignorance, spreading ignorance in the Muslim community.
The SEC enforces law and regulations. Including things like you should do the things you are charging people for doing. He should know that the SEC does things like that.
Umar, you claim his false claims were minor and had no bearing on anything because it had to do with sharia-compliance. Is that a joke?
Is your article a joke?
Do you have a particular issue against shuyukh, that makes you make allegations and inferences without any evidence?
This sounds like a YQ-fan reply.
Let me explain:
1. How did YQ affirm that every single institution has a Shari’ah Board looking into things. I mean, the best thing we can take from this is that he made a totally ignoramous claim here, which is what the article warns against. That’s the extend of his “ijtihad”
2. Most Muslims have no idea about Islamic Finance, the right thing to do is to teach, but I’m afraid that he would push people to disguised riba methods, as he deceives with hadith, fiqh and aqeedah already. The phrase is not necessarily wrong, but the to e is: don’t you trust me?!
3. Where did you take that ethics is separate from the Sharia? Only secularists believe that garbage. This is in the same line of his saying that we should oppose the LGTV group morally but support them politically via his deluded “ijtihad”, which is slowly walking out of now. That is NOT Islam in any way, shape or form, and if you took classes for real scholars, you would never heard these kind of cringy lines. This is just his dissociation after being caught.
4. It is know by necessity that’s haram to pay zakát to the kuffar, no serious Muslim would do that unless he’s ignorant, or deceived to believed it. Muslim associations collecting zakat need more scrutiny in that regard than other orgs. I agree that Muslims should be warned about other orgs as well as a general rule, but a Muslim org just cannot claim to work with zakat or financial services and be ignorant of the fiqh of it at the same time. Not every ignorant is excused by his ignorance, but rather, people are on different levels. This is the same reason why YQ’s excuse of being an ethics advisor is not excused for vouching or supporting an org deceiving the Muslims. Muslim orgs are not accountability free, enjoining good and forbidding evil applies to Muslims as well.
I’m sorry if I came out harsh, but honestly, YQ is a full-fledge reformist, who circles himself with reformists, uses reformists arguments and taking points, and teaches things that nobody in the Muslim Ummah said before, including none of his Medina teachers. This knowledge is the religion, so beware where you take your religion from.
1. It's how Islamic Finance works. Islamic Finance products have Shariah advisors who sign of the product. Just a well known fact. Feel free to look through the various products Wahed has and bring forward a few that don't have that, i.e. back up your point.
2. OK so we agree the phrase is fine. Thank you.
3. You miss my point here. This was my question "Do you really expect him to audit every last thing the company is doing on an ongoing basis? Seriously?"
4. Firstly I'm not talking about zakat. Which is because it's not something I know that much about so I didn't read that part of the article. But again, why does the author not criticise Ishares, HSBC etc.? Just Muslims? A reader should ask themselves that question.
5. It's fair enough you have a negative view on YQ in general. You're entitled to your opinion. However that shouldn't affect how you judge his actions in this instance. One needs to be fair and take each situation in isolation, as the Prophet (saw) did. That's our religion, whichever shaykh you want to follow.
So I am not sure but heard the Ehsan is working on an agenda by writing such articles so non-Muslim charities claim to be the rightful person to distribute the Zakat (I guess they have no clue other than that they are missing trillions of dollars from Zakat donations) Is that true though!
No. It’s not true. I support Muslims doing hand to hand zakat.